Well, it is never about what we feel should be offensive, but what they feel is
offensive. Part of living or taking part of a society is being conscious of your fellow
members feelings.

Now, I am not attacking you. I'm looking out for our female members. The kind
neshura warned us, although playfully, that we should check our egos at the door if
we want more females in this profession, and I think she has a point. I know how
upset I would be if a female I cared for was offended. Should I be less concerned if
someone with whom I am not particularly connected is also offended?

Thanks for saying this, J.J. I thank you because I agree and also because I think it takes a bit of extra moxie to stand up and say something like this. Joking around usually looks so innocent to the participants, so that it can be natural to feel like one is being something of a PITA or is throwing cold water on the party if one offers reminders about the need for sensitivity.

I am going to offer the example of the recent YAPC and some of the verbiage heard there as an example of why I perceive this community has a ways to go. I stood next to a woman of East Indian decent and listened as Nathan Torkington went on a wild supposedly humorous diatribe (which was pre-announced to be all in good fun) and couldn't help but feel that there was an enormous insensitivity there (I don't mean to single Nathan out or speak ill of anyone behind their back, this was just an example).

I believe that I perceived that Indian woman's increasing discomfort level as the torrent of blue language and off-color jokes (including a reference the "the ambulatory speed of Calcutta Cripples") increased, just as I believe she tried to suppress it. I think women work way harder than we sometimes realize to create a way for themselves to be a part of the Perl hacking community -- to feel they belong. It is possible when one is determined to do something like that, to have one's sensibilities repeatedly assulted without making any fuss about it, but underneath a cumulative sort of negative feeling is accruing. Obviously none of that should play a role at all -- it should soley be about how competent a programmer you are and how much you endeavor to contribute.

Anyway, J.J., this thread, although perhaps long-dead, offered me an opportunity to express these concerns and to acknowledge what I see as their relatedness to what you stated above. Thanks again.

soren andersen Intrepid