Greetings,

Here's another question about education worth/value that I am sure you've heard discussed before.

The facts:
I'm 26 and a Systems Programmer. I have very little experience. I currently make a little less than $40 grand/year. I enjoy my job as a Unix systems admin, but I much rather get into software design and development.

I have a BA in English. I have never taken a CIS course.

I'm single.

I don't feel like spending a ton of money and about 4 years to get a Masters degree in CIS, which is within my reach with some hard work. However, having a Master's degree in CIS would certainly open up a lot of doors for me. And I would be making really good money.

I also can try to get a certificate. I was thinking of the Columbia University CTA program.

My goals:
I enjoy Web development. I've worked as a Web programmer, but like system administration I also don't want to do that for the rest of my life either. I am really thinking of dipping my feet into the (non-Web) software engineering and development arena, but to be perfectly honest I am not too sure what I will find there. It sounds exciting. I love to program.

I feel that my education is decent, but I also feel that having a little more on my resume wouldn't hurt. I know that some of you think that experience is the most important thing in a job candidate, but . . . If I'm going to continue on my IT journey, I know that I would want to put myself in the best possible situation.

Anyway, I was hoping that I could get some insight from any of you. Thanks monks!

Replies are listed 'Best First'.
Re: Educational opportunities
by chromatic (Archbishop) on Nov 30, 2002 at 06:13 UTC

    Your situation won't get any better for you to pursue schooling unless you're laid off with a nifty severance package. I've never been a fan of IS degrees though, as I'm an elitist jerk who thinks programming is different from managing "information systems".

    Studying computer science formally is good -- I wish I'd done it, but I'm glad to have a liberal arts degree. Perhaps a year of studying the basics of comp. sci would do you good. If you can combine than with a Pete McBreen mentoring, you'll do really well.

      Exactly. If you want to get into software development don't bother with more IT training. You're a sysadmin and you have some coding experience; technically oriented education won't teach you much that you can't pick up on your own. I'm not sure a certificate or degree in CIS will do much for your chances of getting hired in development either. If you think more education is important, look at pure CS programs. Otherwise, teach yourself the principles of computational theory and good software design. A broad understanding of standard algorithms, data structures, and software design methodology will serve you much better in development than IT training.

      Many people don't realize that a bachelor's in CS is more of a liberal arts degree than an engineering one (well, applied mathematics). All that bullshit about "lifelong learning" you probably heard when getting your BA (mine's in polisci) is pretty applicable to CS. I've recently graduated with a BSCS and I know quite a bit of computational theory and design methodology but very little about the technical details. I don't know much SQL, I've never worked with an Oracle database, I'm not especially well-versed with XML, etc. The hot new tech with a nifty little acronym probably isn't in my portfolio. In the current job market, where no one wants to train you, this is a bit of a problem. You have some hands on experience in system administration. With some pure CS training, you may not find it all that difficult to move into a development position, even if your theoretical background is self-taught.

      That said, I wouldn't leave paying job at the moment to find out.

Re: Educational opportunities
by toma (Vicar) on Nov 30, 2002 at 06:12 UTC
    I think you should get some sort of technical degree. This makes it easier for someone to hire you, in case you need to go looking for a programming job.

    You might consider a more difficult computer science or computer engineering type of curriculum, since it sounds like you already know IT.

    This is also a good time to take advantage of your mobility to live someplace that you really like. Look around and find a place that has great people, fun work, and a decent education!

    It should work perfectly the first time! - toma

Re: Educational opportunities
by sauoq (Abbot) on Dec 01, 2002 at 03:58 UTC

    Although a degree is becoming somewhat more important these days, it isn't the end-all-be-all. A four year degree still isn't worth one year of actual experience IMHO. Furthermore, neither a degree nor experience will get you half as far as a little talent, a little ambition, and a lot of love for the work. I'm guessing you might have all three of those.

    If you are willing to pay for a degree maybe you should consider taking a pay cut for an entry level development position. In the long run it will probably be less costly and just as effective. Finding such a position may be easier than you imagine. Just be honest about your skills and sell yourself with your enthusiasm. Underscore your willingness to learn. Be assertive, persistent, and professional. They don't teach you those things in school; you have to learn them on your own. Once you do though, they will serve you better in the real world than anything you can learn in a classroom.

    -sauoq
    "My two cents aren't worth a dime.";
    
Re: Educational opportunities
by Callum (Chaplain) on Dec 01, 2002 at 02:09 UTC
    While there's little doubt that a CS degree (of any flavour) would bolster your CV, the key thing to weigh up is whether the value of the theory you gain in taking the degree outweighs the "real" experience you're not gaining by not being in work. There are definately things you'll learn on a degree that you'll never pick up doing the job for real, but you many of these can be self taught, and the absences mitigated by seeking out opportunities in your current role to demonstrate "formal" knowledges and skills.

    If you want to end up as a programmer, but are currently a web programmer/sysadmin then strive to highlight on your CV elements such as --

    any big web coding you've done, whether client-side Java, or server-side CGI
    any database-work you've done, maybe your big server-side perl cgi programs are churning SQL queries
    make -- always looks good, as a sysadmin you'll probably have done your fair share of picking through dodgy makefiles
    performance -- this perl CGI, or that shell script aren't fast enough? Re-implement critical parts of them in C.
    team development -- code or projects you've worked on jointly, where your contribution was only part of the whole

    These things may not be requirements of your current role, but you can ensure that work you do is as favourable to a software development role as possible. You're not going to magically get a wonderfull development job on the back of things like this, but you have to consider that even if you do go back to uni and get a CS degree, you may well not be as employable as you might think.

    I'm in a similar position to you -- 27, making a little under UKP30k, doing a mix of Unix sysadmin and perl programming; my degree was in astrophysics, no formal CS qualifications; the only benefit I have is that my degree is in a numerate discipline, which will sometimes carry more weight.

    I've been looking at university degrees, part time distance learning classes -- University of London External programme and the Open University, I'm sure there are similar courses offered in US universities; but I've never considered any CS degrees, the closest I've looked at is an IT MBA. I've been looking at business related degrees -- finance, economics and such, ones that would offer value-add skills to complement my self-taught IT knowledge. I certainly would not consider a full time degree, the benefits are, in my opinion, far too slim -- there's always the risk that returning to uni can be percieved as not being up to working in the real world, definately not the impression you wish to convey!

    Good luck with whatever you decide to do, but my advice would be to not return to university, but rather build on the experiences you've already got, teach yourself some of the more formal and theoretical elements of CS, and seek out opportunities in your current roles to advance your SD skills.

Re: Educational opportunities
by Anonymous Monk on Dec 05, 2002 at 15:19 UTC
    Thanks everyone!