I was talking about popularity as a commercial development environment, not as a user environment.

There are a lot more Java coders out there that Perl coders. There are a lot more Java jobs out there than Perl jobs. Remember, there is a lot of non-web related code written in the world ;-)

Perl certification does not exist because it's not economically viable - there are not enough companies out there who want/need one.

(Note: I'm not saying Perl cannot be used in many of the places Java is used now just as successfully. I like Perl. However, at the moment, Java is more popular. I don't think certification will change this one iota.)

I'm sure you are right that more Java programmers are coming out of colleges and more Java jobs are posted. But without real numbers, I'm still not sure there aren't more Perl programmers and more Perl being used in the workplace/tech-office than Java. I really think image is most of the problem and I'm not 100% pro-certificate but I think it *would* help Perl's image.

Eg: I use Perl in my job every day though my job description says nothing about it; it makes my job easier. Every sysadmin, DBA, and C-hacker I know personally uses Perl (and quite a few of the C-hackers dabble in Ruby too). I work in a large company and of the 20 or so tech jobs open right now. Roughly 25% ask for Java and 50% ask for Perl. And even that is HR's misunderstanding of the work to be done. From experience in the office I can tell you that 10% will end up using Java and 80% will use Perl. But even there, where most of the company relies on it every day, there is a misunderstanding about Perl's ubiquity and usefulness.

On a related note, just found this online for Java certification. Passing scores range from 52% to 70%. Hmmmm... The best work you can be guaranteed to get from a certified Java programmer seems to be "C-" work and you just might be getting a solid "F." :)

"...people who argue "Perl isn't taken seriously because it isn't certified" have it completely the wrong way around.

You can't ask to the others to know Perl, Java or anything, they just follow the wave. You think that who tell that Java is good really know it?! Who chose the peoples generally are persons that doesn't know the technology, and this is why they chose for certified programers, and we need to dance with the music! Ask to the others to have a good idea about the things is just utopia.

My idea to make Perl certification come because I don't agree with the facts and I want to change them. Every body can change the things, you just need to start, move the peolples... or you just agree with the wrong things in the world and continue with your life?!

My grandfather learned a good thing with his grandfather. In the life you can make your rules, or follow the rules of the others. If you show from the beginning that you make your rules, the peoples will respect them, and some will follow too. But you always need to show your rules from the begin. One time in the game of the others you are in the game of the others. My great-grandfather lived 109 years, and my grandfather has 76. All of them had a good life, and what I said work from more than 120 years.

(I make my rules!)

Graciliano M. P.
"The creativity is the expression of the liberty".

Perl is more popular than Java, since you have more peoples that use it. The problem is that the market look more for Java since Java has a marketing job around it

Perl may be more popular than Java by number of users using Perl based code. However it's not a more popular commercial development environment. There are more Java jobs than Perl jobs. More commercial Java code gets written than commercial Perl code.

In my opinion this is what drives the success of a certification scheme.

Who chose the peoples generally are persons that doesn't know the technology, and this is why they chose for certified programers, and we need to dance with the music

I've been one of those people who choose people ;-)

You advertise for a Perl job you get dozens of CVs. You advertise for a Java job you get hundreds. Specifying some level of Java certification brings the number down to a reasonable amount and excludes the complete idiots.

It also excludes a large number of equally, if not more, competent people.

Sometimes it's not because the recruiters are technically incompetent. It's because they have finite resources to find a new recruit. This is where certification is useful. This is why you only see it in popular languages or environments.

My idea to make Perl certification come because I don't agree with the facts and I want to change them. Every body can change the things, you just need to start, move the peolples... or you just agree with the wrong things in the world and continue with your life?!

I have nothing against you trying to create a Perl certification scheme. Honest :-) More power to your arm.

However if I was recruiting I wouldn't use it. I can just look at all of the CVs I receive to find the best person. I don't have to run the risk of excluding a possibly competent person without certification because the number of CVs I get is manageable.

The point I was trying to make was that I don't think certification will change the popularity of Perl one iota.

Language choice is made because of the number of developers available, the experience of your in-house team, the features the language gives you, and many other reasons.

I've been writing commercial software for over fifteen years. In that time language choice has never been made because you could get certified developers in one language and not another. Its just not an issue in language choice. It's a recruitment tool.