Re^2: The State of the Union

You don't really believe that, do you? Considering that it would take an Ammendment to keep Bush after this term, no serious claims of "rigging" or voter-fraud have occured in one of the most closely-observed (by all sides) elections in history, and that Bush won with a fairly naorrow (if conclusive) margin, I highly doubt that we're about to be come a "dictatorship" or have massively "rigged" elections.

Of course, we keep it that way by watching for and stomping on abuses. But, moving out of the country is a bit overkill; and how does it help your country if you do that?

In the wake of the election, I've noted a disappointing lack of patriotism, and a clear lack of understanding about the difference between patriotism and nationalism:

Patriotism is the love of one's country.
Nationalism is the love of one's government.

Nationalism has very little good effect, and almost always leads to abuses of power by the government. Patriotism keeps nationalism in check.

It's like the difference between loving Perl and insisting that Larry Wall is never wrong. It's quite possible to be dissatisfied with quite a bit of what Larry says and still love and work for the benefit of Perl. Likewise, I can disagree with nearly everything our President does, but I still love and work for the benefit of the USA. And, just as a blind devotion to Larry could threaten Perl -- it might lead to problems when he has a bad idea that gets implemented simply because "Larry sez" -- blind devotion to a government or its leader potentially threatens one's country.

radiantmatrix
require General::Disclaimer;
"Users are evil. All users are evil. Do not trust them. Perl specifically offers the -T switch because it knows users are evil." - japhy

Comment on Re^2: The State of the Union

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Re^3: The State of the Union by zentara (Cardinal) on Nov 06, 2004 at 11:00 UTC
You don't really believe that, do you? Why yes I do. Bush dosn't need a third term for it to be true. Isn't it odd to you that the son of an CIA-man-ex-president, with no real ability other than managing a baseball team becomes president? If it happened in Russia we would all sneer at it's fraudulent implications. The people running the dictatorship absolutely control who gets nominated in the 2 party system, pick "puppet-A or puppet-B". If you are not one of their puppets, they run you off real quick, ask Gary Hart or Howard Dean. One was run off for sleeping with a girl (oh what a horrid crime) and the other was run off for screaming in jubilation at a victory. While George Bush's shoddy record of drug use is just swept under rug. In Russia they just have "puppet-A". What is the difference? They are already talking about the "next Bush in the line of succesion to the American throne"...either his brother,the governor of Florida, or some other nephew. The power lies behind the scenes and is currently squashing out all opposition, and locking the wealthy elite in as "permanent rulers and landlords" over America. The gestapo did it with jack-booted thugs, it's now done by smiling faces in suit coats who control the media. And what about the CEO of Diebold (who made the electronic-secret election equipment) saying he would "do everything in his power to get Bush elected"....oops...he almost let the cat out of the bag. Wake up. America is being controlled by people who you have no say over, and are immune to "voting by the masses". Your children are just cannon-fodder to them in their war-machine. I'm not really a human, but I play one on earth. flash japh	[reply]
Re^3: The State of the Union by abclex (Monk) on Nov 09, 2004 at 14:30 UTC
Just some random questions... Why should I be proud of a country in which I'm randomly born? How can one believe that "God" has chosen his/her country as the only true one. Is this fundamental or religious? Isn't Patriotism a very nationalistic way to express your very own thoughts and feelings? How can a man be so arrogant to call his country the world police? Can I spread peace through bombs? update: I guess I have to explan my question related to "Patriotism": I think there is a very thin line between Patriotism and Nationalism. But I do _not_ think that Patriotism in general is radical or nationalistic. Btw: These are questions that I ask myself, too...	[reply]
Re^4: The State of the Union by radiantmatrix (Parson) on Nov 09, 2004 at 17:14 UTC
Ok, some random answers... ;-P Why should I be proud of a country in which I'm randomly born? I don't think being born in a country has much to do with patriotism, except in the idea that you should be pleased with your home. If you aren't, then you would likely be best-served either remodelling the home (i.e. changing laws) or moving elsewhere (finding a country that fits you better). I'm not one to say that my home is definitively the best country in the world -- I love it here, and I think it's the best country for me; others are free to disagree. ;-) There are those that are stuck in a situation with little power to change it, and those people are probably not patriotic -- and that's OK. What I meant by "disturbing lack of patriotism" is the people who feel the whole country sucks because the current government is not to their liking. How can one believe that "God" has chosen his/her country as the only true one. Is this fundamental or religious? I have no idea. That's the stupidist thing I've ever heard, frankly. I love my country because I love the idea that it represents -- despite the poor implementation of late. Just like I loved Linux even when it was hard to use and supported no hardware, because I loved the idea it represented. Isn't Patriotism a very nationalistic way to express your very own thoughts and feelings? No. Patriotism is simply love for one's country. Nationalism is love for one's government. While it is possible to have both, I believe patriotism to include a healthy suspicion of authority. How can a man be so arrogant to call his country the world police? I don't know. I've always hated that about recent governments. It's one thing to lend superior military might to UN or other multi-national efforts, but it's somewhat odd to me that the US goes around forcing its ideals on others, sometimes. Can I spread peace through bombs? Not sure what that has to do with patriotism... Anyway, my answer is "not usually." There are times when military might can be used to "break up a fight" before it escalates, but that is suprisingly rare. In general, one should spread peace through peacable actions; using force to stop a conflict should be an emergency measure. radiantmatrix `require General::Disclaimer;` "Users are evil. All users are evil. Do not trust them. Perl specifically offers the -T switch because it knows users are evil." - japhy	[reply]