in reply to RE: It's the script
in thread evolving - meaning of life?

I agree that without our saviour, Larry, we would not have such brilliant camel worship as we do today.

However I do not think it is fair to say that Perl itself could not have existed as an idea without host mind. That is, an idea does not need someone to think it, to be.

I'm reminded of the song by Bjork which talks about all the machines and inventions of the world lying under a mountain waiting for their time to come out. Just because no mortal (even a saint!) has thought of something, doesn't mean it can't exist on some level.

My final arguement is along the lines of an idea that was thought of by mortals, and later lost or forgotten. A close example is Greek Fire (although we still know of the "idea" of Greek Fire, just not the ingredients, it's a close example). Just because we mortals and saints have forgotten ancient wisdom, does not keep it from existing in some other planar sort of existance.

Meta-Cheers,
Gryn

  • Comment on Ideas can exist without minds to m{end,old} them.

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RE: Ideas can exist without minds to m{end,old} them.
by mdillon (Priest) on Sep 15, 2000 at 02:32 UTC
    human ideas absolutely cannot exist without minds.
[reply]
      So, just because no one has thought of something, or even, isn't thinking of something at the moment, it doesn't exist???
[reply]
        gryng, I think you misunderstood what brother mdillon was saying. Look at it again:
        human ideas absolutely cannot exist without minds
        This does not mean that apples don't exist if we fail to notice them. It means what it says. Ideas spring from minds; mdillon made no assertions regarding reality. Now it's possible, granted, that reality cannot be separated from our perception of it (a lot of quantum physicists would argue this), but I that's not what he said.

        In fact, it appears that the definition of idea that mdillon was applying was something, such as a thought or conception, that potentially or actually exists in the mind as a product of mental activity. Ideas, therefore, require minds to form them.

        Cheers,
        Ovid

        Join the Perlmonks Setiathome Group or just go the the link and check out our stats.

[reply]
        There's a widely held belief that "reality" is a consensus belief system. That if no one believes (or perhaps thinks) of something, it doesn't exist. Right now, I'm trying real hard to not imagine the IRS.

        --Chris

        e-mail jcwren
[reply]
RE: Ideas can exist without... (Larry==(saint | savior))
by ybiC (Prior) on Sep 15, 2000 at 05:52 UTC
    While "The Larry" is a saint, I'm reasonably confident that he'd object to being called savior.   I've never met the man, but his "1st State of the Onion" address is a pretty strong indicator.

    Changing the subject, it's good to see a debate thread run for 12+ days and 12+ nodes yet not deteriorate into a flame war.   Good job monks! 8^)
        cheers,
        ybiC

[reply]
      A saviour only in the sense of allowing enlightenment in the realm of computers and programming. The religious tones are only to be imagined :) .

      A Saint because you can't classify a saviour as a god without religious tones (and consequential pillars of flame).

      Kudos for the compliment. However it's been +12 days because I'm very lazy and take several days to respond. :)

      Cheers,
      Gryn

[reply]

In Section Meditations