I think it's people's choice whether to use them or not. Q is decently supported if you count browsers; not if you count market share. Which, you guessed it, means Internet Explorer doesn't really support Q at all, though any modern browser does.

I'm certainly glad that these tags are around. I noticed INS and DEL only a while ago, and have since been annoyed on a couple occasions that I had to STRIKE instead.

Makeshifts last the longest.

So then you mean on a useability basis Q isn't good but it is good on a political level. As long as we're clear on that.

Q is decently supported if you count browsers; not if you count market share. Which, you guessed it, means Internet Explorer doesn't really support Q at all, though any modern browser does.

Sorry for the late reply, and for being a bit crochety, but this has to be said.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said <q>every modern browser does</q>. As far as IE, there are a lot of things it doesn't support, some of which are in fairly widespread use (alphachannel transparency comes to mind, and an assortment of useful CSS stuff), and yet, somehow, life goes on. Part of the design of HTML from the beginning was graceful degradation, and new versions of HTML — and websites — have taken advantage of this since circa 1995, going on ten years ago; it is normal for users of antequated browsers to not see all of your markup, but they can still read the content. As far as IE, it can no longer be reasonably considered a modern browser. It hasn't been meaningfully updated since time out of mind (6.0 came out when? And that was a pretty minor update; the last real feature added was Print Preview in IE 5.5, circa 2000) and is officially not scheduled for any further updates except for security (unless you count updates that pertain to OS/browser/filemanager integration, which will only be available as part of the OS upgrade process; whether those really would count as browser upgrades is debatable at best). Of the three major OS platforms most Perl users use, IE is an end-of-line hasbeen on one platform, a never-was lack-of-product on another, and horifically out of date with little hope of improvement ever even on its best, native platform. If people want to continue to use IE for whatever reason, that's fine; if they want, they can continue to use NCSA Mosaic; it's obsolete, but it mostly still works. They aren't going to see all the features of the web that way, though, and removing <q>unsupported</q> tags from Perlmonks isn't going to change that very much.

Yeah, I know, it's not a really big deal. We can always just use &quot;. It's not as if l10n is really an issue for Perlmonks, and it's not as if preview won't remind us to change out our quote tags, and it's not as if we can't edit our nodes and replace the quote tags ex post facto if we forget to do so beforehand. But I think filtering out a tag just because one legacy browser doesn't support it is misguided; legacy browsers are why HTML was defined in a way that allows it to degrade gracefully; the whole point of defining it that way was so that new features (though calling q tags a new feature at this point feels rather odd) can be used even if there are browsers — even very popular browsers — that don't support them.

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<q>In adjectives, with the addition of inflectional endings, a changeable long vowel (Qamets or Tsere) in an open, propretonic syllable will reduce to Vocal Shewa. This type of change occurs when the open, pretonic syllable of the masculine singular adjective becomes propretonic with the addition of inflectional endings.</q>  — Pratico & Van Pelt, BBHG, p68

I think Q should be removed from the list of allowed tags. We shouldn't be encouraging people to use HTML that isn't well supported for our audience.

- tye        

Er, I added it without reviewing the support for it. I figured if its a legal tag and doesnt present security issues then its ok. I can see that you have a point however so if you want it removed just reply saying so and Ill take care of it.

However i think its worth considering that we can just use CSS to emphasize it for IE users. Ie, I have q { font: italic; } in my personal CSS so i can see the content as I often browse with IE. It doesnt quote them properly but it does make them stand out enough that I dont see much of an issue leaving them in. Its not like they are in widespread use anyway. *shrug*



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demerphq


First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
-- Gandhi

I get the Q tag correctly in firefox and Konqueror, but not IE 6.

Also, it'd be good to test nested Q tags: <q>She said <q>I said <q>you said</q>, you know?</q></q>. Konqueror gives me all double quotes for those, which isn't quite correct.

I also get all-doublequotes in Firefox. The standard does not seem to mandate any particular handling though, it only seems to indicate that user agents should behave accordingly.

Makeshifts last the longest.

Really, the exact quoting behavior shouldn't be left up to the HTML standard, but to your specific locale. Under en-US, nested quotations should alternate double quotes and single quotes. However, it's perfectly reasonable that another locale does it completely differently.

I must say, the <q> tag is a really good idea, especially when you start thinking about the web as one big database. Wish browsers supported it better . . .

"There is no shame in being self-taught, only in not trying to learn in the first place." -- Atrus, Myst: The Book of D'ni.