What would this place be without questions ?

Hi,
Most of what I've learnt about perl in particular, and computing in general, has come from answering questions on various public forums. As everyone knows, you learn much more from answering questions than you do from asking questions.

I therefore find that I'm inclined, in the cause of encouraging the asking of questions, to ++ questions, no matter how poorly phrased or trivial they are. I'm often surprised to find that, when I do ++ an sopw post, it's either in the red, or zero.

Dunno ... admittedly some of them are very trivial and/or poorly phrased ... but it seems to me that if we -- a question simply because it has been asked before, or because we (the "initiated") find it easy to answer, then the questioner is likely to simply go away - and we lose the input of that person further on down the track - when that person has advanced to the stage of being able to ask fresh and stimulating questions.

I was looking tonight at a post from greatshots which, after ++'ing it, showed a reputation of 0. Ok ... greatshots has posted 108 writeups, and perhaps should have been able to answer the question without posting to sopw ... or maybe (s)he should have known better than to post without supplying some code that exhibits the attempts already made to answer the question. But then, the question (though easily answered - and well answered by tirhwan) didn't seem all that unreasonable to me ... and we (at least *I*) don't know how conversant that person is in English, or perl for that matter.

It just seems to me that if we keep --'ing posts like that then we'll just send the message "we don't want your posts" ... and those people will go away ... and sopw will become about as live and vibrant as comp.lang.perl.misc which, if you take away the spam and the automated FAQ postings, now has very little to offer (from the point of view of answerer/peruser, anyway).

I know there are valid 'contra' arguments here ... but the number of downvotes I see just seems unhealthy to me ... that's all.

Mind you, I also get the impression that some of the recipients of these downvotes are fairly thick-skinned ... probably a good thing IMHO :-)

Cheers,
Rob
Update: s/returned an XP value of 0/showed a reputation of 0/
Thanks, fenLisesi

Comment on What would this place be without questions ?

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Re: What would this place be without questions ? by Old_Gray_Bear (Bishop) on Jun 27, 2007 at 15:22 UTC
I often '++' a question because, while it may be poorly posed, the question engendered an interesting thread of responses. I rarely '--' a node for any reason, much less 'style' or "English grammar/spelling". If I don't like a node, I exercise my third option -- I ignore it. I look at a '--' vote as the 'Big Stick' and only haul it out very occasionally and then only for the really egregious cases of Troll-ism or Flame-baiting. Perl Monks is composed of Adults (intellectually if not chronologically), and I have come to expect a certain Standard of Civility of Discourse. Re-enforcing that behavior is really my only criteria for a negative vote. We have all come here to learn. We are all Students here. Update -- fixed typo. (Thanks fenLisesi). ---- I Go Back to Sleep, Now. OGB	[reply]
Re: What would this place be without questions ? by BrowserUk (Patriarch) on Jun 27, 2007 at 17:13 UTC
Your title reminds me of some things I said in a meditation just over 4 years ago: If you take the premise that this site should have one definitive answer to every question, and repeat questioners should either search and find their answer there, or be briefly, or preemptively referred to that definitive answer, then the site would serve no purpose and would die. You could simply freeze the database along with the FAQ's and the super search node to a CD and the site could become a static reference work and a piece of history. The rare occasions when a truly unique and original question comes up could be dealt with through an 'Unresolved question automated dial-out' to a list of half a dozen wildly recognised experts, with a fall-back to p5p or comp.lang.perl.moderated(and friends)(+)or some such. +Update: Merlyn Pointed out that comp.lang.perl hasn't existed since 1995... But that isn't what this site is about, nor should it be. This site is about learning, assisted learning and community. It's about advocacy, about promotion, about self- and community-help. And everyone, from the novitiates, through slow- and rapid-learners, through acknowledged experts can all contribute to and learn; both from the information here, and, through the interactions that take place at this site. For my part, I learn something, and usually several somethings every time I come here. This evening, I learnt 3 new things in less than an hour. Two of them were even perl-related:). And I will continue to come here and read and learn, and when the occasion arises, post my questions in the hope of achieving a quicker and/or more complete answer than I could achieve alone. I rarely vote one way or the other on SoPW root nodes, and almost never down. And never for formatting or language or because the subject doesn't interest me. Occasionally, a really original question pops up that makes you think about things a different way, or question your assumptions and I may upvote those. But mostly, I tend to vote on replies rather than questions. Questions may be the life blood of the place, but without answers (and good answers), they would quickly dry up. Meditations on the other hand usually get an upvote--whether I agree with them or not. PMD's get a vote for, or against, or abstain according to how I feel about the idea. I agree whole-heartedly with you Rob. Newbie bashing is a mean spirited pastime. It seems to go in waves here. Fading away and then springing up again for no apparent reason. Examine what is said, not who speaks -- Silence betokens consent -- Love the truth but pardon error. "Science is about questioning the status quo. Questioning authority". In the absence of evidence, opinion is indistinguishable from prejudice. "Too many [] have been sedated by an oppressive environment of political correctness and risk aversion."	[reply]
Re: What would this place be without questions ? by naikonta (Curate) on Jun 27, 2007 at 15:12 UTC
There are several things on my mind: Every community has its own way, written or not, to treat community members, especially new ones, and more especially if the new ones conduct below the (written or not) community's standard. Each community consists of heterogenous people, even if they all agree and commit to the standard, not all of them applying it in the same manner. And even if they do, they do it for different reason, different purpose. Read more... (3 kB) It happens so many times, before and after I registered, that starting with a bad post, ending up as a very interesting thread we have so much to learn. So instead of "What would this place be without questions ?", I would say, "What would this place be without interesting and useful threads?" Having said all that, I really have nothing againsts your post. Open source softwares? Share and enjoy. Make profit from them if you can. Yet, share and enjoy!	[reply]
Re: What would this place be without questions ? by tinita (Parson) on Jun 27, 2007 at 18:28 UTC
you're right, but i want to add that people should still be encouraged to think before they post. because if people put more effort in their post to make sure everyone understands the problem, then often they will find the answer theirselves, and that's a good thing for them. so if they don't get told that their question is not understandable, they'll keep on.	[reply]
Re: What would this place be without questions ? by Argel (Prior) on Jun 27, 2007 at 19:29 UTC
I agree that we want to encourage future participation, but I fail to see why zero votes combined with some useful answers does not accomplish this goal. Upvoting these types of posts on the other hand would seem to encourage the bad behavior. I would rather save my votes for good replies and good, interesting questions.	[reply]
Re^2: What would this place be without questions ? by syphilis (Archbishop) on Jun 28, 2007 at 08:24 UTC
Just a brief note to acknowledge that I've read through the replies posted (so far, at least) - numerous good points have been made throughout them. I don't see any need to add anything further. Thank you, one and all, for your responses. Cheers, Rob	[reply]
Re^3: What would this place be without questions ? by Gavin (Archbishop) on Jun 28, 2007 at 12:11 UTC
No thank you for a very interesting string.	[reply]
Re^4: What would this place be without questions ? by Argel (Prior) on Jun 28, 2007 at 22:19 UTC
Re: What would this place be without questions ? by apl (Monsignor) on Jun 27, 2007 at 18:38 UTC
I learn here more than I help, sadly. I ++ interesting questions. Straightforward ones get a ++, depending on my mood. I will downtick people who don't: - know Perl at all. Read about the language before you ask questions about it! - search the site or Google for the question first - write a sample script I've learned an awful lot here, but I try to search before asking.	[reply]
Re: What would this place be without questions ? by sgt (Deacon) on Jun 27, 2007 at 14:56 UTC
I agree completely. Still it is sad to see the fate of c.l.p.m cheers --stephan	[reply]
Re^2: What would this place be without questions ? by blazar (Canon) on Jun 28, 2007 at 08:11 UTC
I agree completely. Still it is sad to see the fate of c.l.p.m FUD! clpmisc is alive and well: yes it's getting less and less traffic. Yet it's good for what it's good for. I see people routinely helped on a daily basis there and whoa, even thanking too! That place and PM are simply complementary, although there are obvious overlappings: I know that there are questions I would ask in the former, and questions I would rather ask here. Occasionally I feel there's something good to report back and forth.	[reply]
Re: What would this place be without questions ? by apl (Monsignor) on Jun 28, 2007 at 14:25 UTC
One other point... I was frustrated twice this morning by wanting to ++ what I felt was an interesting question. The only problem was, the questions were posted by Anonymous Monk. It made me wish there was a way for an individual to be Anonymous Monk<unique random> with the option to register and retain the points his anonymity had acquired.	[reply]