in reply to Re^13: Patience is a Cheese Sandwich
in thread Patience is a Monk Virtue

You continue with this fundamental misunderstanding of the EU being a "state".

> Well, be fair, there was definitely state coercion and a little resulting violence in Catalonia lately.

The conflict in Catalonia is purely internal, and Brussels denies being used by one or the other side.

The EU has only very limited possibilities to control or "punish" a member state.

Actually it was the EU ( well rather the predecessor "European Community" ) which helped transforming Spain and Portugal into stable democracies.

It's like blaming a club if one of his members is quarrelling with his wife.

> There have been no specifically EU atrocities except as the EU has supported the US's irrational, violent nonsense

Some member states supported the Iraq invasion (UK and Poland*), others opposed it strictly (Germany and France).

The EU as such wasn't involved!!!

Keep in mind that some EU members (Austria, Sweden, Finland, Ireland ) are NOT in the NATO and some neutral by constitution!

Cheers Rolf
(addicted to the Perl Programming Language and ☆☆☆☆ :)
Je suis Charlie!

*) actually Poland was at that time not a EU member yet.

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Re^15: Patience is a Cheese Sandwich
by Your Mother (Archbishop) on Nov 15, 2017 at 21:23 UTC

    I don't think the EU is a state. It is however a binding economic force which plays a role historically reserved to states and it does many things I personally consider harmful. Along the same lines, the US Federal reserve is not a state either but it sure is a force for ill.

    I said key EU members backed the Iraq debacle so a correction using my exact words seems a bit strange. :P My arguments are about dividing political and economic control and coercion, whether state, non-state actor, church, whatever into the smallest units possible. To me this would include disbanding NATO, the UN, and the EU.

    Since my philosophy precludes the use of force to achieve any such ends, I'm just the idiot suggesting it might work better for everyone and that how safe and wealthy people are corresponds neatly to how much economic and political freedom they have and to nothing else at all. Double :P

[reply]
      > key EU members backed the Iraq debacle

      key EU members opposed the Iraq debacle.

      > plays a role historically reserved to states and it does many things I personally consider harmful.

      I agree, EU is not trading fairly with third world countries. Though most of them are ex colonies were the ruling class sends theri kids to schools in London or Paris ...

      > To me this would include disbanding NATO, the UN, and the EU.

      So you are an anarchist in the traditional meaning, OK.

      My understanding of history is that without central rule and courts you have violent local conflicts.

      Let's stop it here! :)

      Cheers Rolf
      (addicted to the Perl Programming Language and ☆☆☆☆ :)
      Je suis Charlie!

[reply]

        The EU requires you to share personal economic responsibility with every Greek. Since shared personal responsibility is a paradox, it can only fail. There is no local conflict in history that has killed as many persons as even the Catholic church, bringing it back around. I advocate for improvement, not perfection. There is no objective perfection in a natural world and the necessarily subjective pursuit of it has caused immense problems. I'm not an anarchist though I see the charm. I'm a classical Liberal who believes it is every bit as immoral to assert that one can be born into sin as be born into a contract.

[reply]

In Section Meditations